Jim O'Rourke probably needs no introduction here, but the Gods of Continuity COMPEL me to put something down to lead into the interview, so i'm going to assume that there might be a few DEAD ANGEL readers unaware of the man and blab about him for a moment, ok? "Kewl...." He began studying for a degree in Composition at Depaul University in Chicago back in 1987 (the year your the disembodied spirit of DEAD ANGEL graduated from college himself, in fact), and when his ideas met with, uh, bewildered opposition by the old- guy academics, turned his attention to performance and recording, both as a solo artist and with Illusion of Safety. In the eight years since then he's appeared basically EVERYWHERE and has released a truly staggering amount of recorded output (does this man ever sleep?), stopping only to produce records as well from time time. Most recently seen working within the context of Brise-Glace and Gastr del sol, he continues to work, like a bottle rocket whose momentum apparently fails to conform to Newton's laws of physics. DEAD ANGEL caught the tail of the comet long enough to bring these words to you:
DA: How did you get interested in exploring non-traditional forms of music?
JIM: Oh, I just was. Since I was 8 or 9 I generally pursued things that just interested me, basically by cross-referencing things, so that I was listening to Varese, Ives, etc., watching Bunuel. I didn't know anyone else who was, but its import to traditional wasn't a deciding factor for me. I would rather listen to Scott Walker over ANY "industrial" music any day.
DA: Are there any particular artists/recordings that have been influential in shaping your musical direction?
JIM: Hmm. I'll just list the important people. Van Dyke Parks, Scott Walker, Luis Bunuel, Morton Feldman, Luc Ferrari, Tony Conrad, Derek Bailey, Cecil Taylor, Dusan Makavejev, Nicolas Roeg, AMM, Michael Snow, Van Dyke Parks again....
DA: How did the collaborations with Null (A NEW KIND OF WATER) and Brise Glace (WHEN IN VANITAS...) come about? Were you satisfied with how those turned out?
JIM: Well, working with Null began by me simply sending him a letter and cassette in the mail back in '88 or '89. I saw his address listed on one recording I got, and it went from there basically. We've really only worked together three times -- the cassette, the CD (which took a long time because I was in school, and for a while quit playing guitar completely), and I played on his Yona Kit record. Brise Glace is basically me and my tape machines; it began when I met Darin Gray, and he introduced me to the people behind Skin Graft. Since they're all swell, we got to know each other well in the interim between the idea and the time to actually do it. Initially I had the idea to put together a group (the main four on the first album), but my interest in that waned considerably in light of the possibilities of treating the whole thing as a tape piece, which in general the record is. (The 7" is more of a document of a "group.") The next record will be even more so.
The VANITAS record should very much be seen as anthropology: I have put it into a certain context which establishes its own language and codes: If it were not on Skin Graft, if it were not presented as a "band," it would not be interpreted in the same way, and that is important. There is a general narrative through the record of a "group" that doesn't quite get the opportunity to play, and this programmatic initiative can be expanded to the functionality of the music: Why does an increase in density imply tension? Does it actually create a certain payoff, or is it assumed, etc.? I was real happy with the Brise Glace record. My only disappointment was there was little reflection on "why" the album was made the way it was, and instead, it was held up to how it was "supposed" to be made, which is of course ironic.
DA: I was kind of surprised to see Steve Albini as the engineer for VANITAS; it's not the kind of album one generally associates with his production! What was it like working with him?
JIM: Well, production is a loaded word, and steve didn't produce the album at all. He acted as recording engineer for some of the more "band-like" moments on "one syntactical unit" and the single. Production implies a creative input, which Steve did not have in the record. Not that we didn't discuss things. Working with Steve is an absolute pleasure, he's a great friend, a super honest person, not at all what gets written up about him (usually coming from people who have never met him, let alone gotten to know him). He is an ace engineer, and pretty much the only person I work with when I need to record in a conventional studio and want to concentrate on other matters. He's been a real supporter of me, helping me out every way with my own music, Gastr del sol, Brise Glace, etc. A real swell guy. Funny as hell too.
DA: You've done a lot of other collaborative work -- how do those usually begin? Do you approach those you'd like to work with, or vice versa?
JIM: Well, most of my "collaborative" work occupies about two years, 91-93, when I was pretty displeased with my own music, and needed to separate myself from it in order to progress, and the best way is to work with other people. To me, each situation is like the aesthetic of improvisation: I'm putting myself into a situation where I have to be honest and re-articulate why the hell I am even doing this in the first place. Well, this is what I learned from doing a lot of these collaborations. I am not very interested in collaborating anymore, although I do on a much deeper level with Dave Grubbs in Gastr del sol, but that is an everyday ongoing concern of mine. I generally like to tell people whose work I like my admiration for them, and share it with others. I spend a lot of time promoting other people's work. There are three people in particular whose work is terribly important: Ralf Wehowsky, Bernhard Gunter, and Tony Conrad. Especially with Conrad, I spend a good deal of time facilitating in any way I can the continued production of their work.
DA: Are there any collaborations you're particularly pleased/displeased with?
JIM: I contnue to be very happy with Gastr del sol, and I get great satisfaction from improvising with Gunter Muller.
DA: Is your involvement with Illusion of Safety your primary focus, or merely one piece in a bigger musical puzzle?
JIM: I haven't had anything to do with IOS for three years, and the continued appearance of myself on their records is due to Dan sampling tapes of me. It is Dan Burke's music, not mine, I cannot for a secon take claim to it. It was a situation I played in when I was meeting new people to play with, many years ago (88-89) when i was 19, but my involvement is highly, highly, highly overated, and quite honestly still puzzles me why people keep bringing it up. Sorry.
DA: How do you view your studies at DePaul University in retrospect? I know a lot of your musical theories weren't well-received by academia there....
JIM: I like to forget about them.
DA: How do you approach the actual process of recording? Is there any particular method you regularly favor, or does the process differ radically from one album to the next, depending on the project?
JIM: Depends on what the material requires. I generally use tape techniques and acoustic sources. Contrary to popular belief, there is very little guitar on my records; it's mostly location recordings and the usual acoustic instruments, and I don't use any electronic processing, etc. It's all done by mixing things. this is not hard-line, of course, but generally what has developed.
DA: You've worked with film soundtracks from time to time; how do you view the relationship between sound and visual media?
JIM: I'm not interested in making music which is "expressive" or "visual" in that sense (generally I'm more interested in WHY music does that more than taking that function at face value and utilizing it). I did the soundtrack for Peter Mettler's PICTURE OF LIGHT, and honestly, a good deal of film music disturbs me in that it is shamelessly manipulative. Luckily, I didn't have that problem with most of PICTURE, but there are moments, where some old music which I hate anyway, was used in a way that was "expressive" and "emotive." Ugh. I sank in my chair.
DA: What projects have you been involved with lately besides the Brise Glace?
JIM: Well, the past eight months, year or so has been involved with producing the new Faust album, and new Tony Conrad recordings. Gastr del sol continues daily, and I spent a good deal of time playing with Swiss improvisers Gunter Muller, Norbert Moslang, and Andy Guhl, which has been wonderfully satisfying. I spent the last two years making "cede," which will be issued on the TERMINAL PHARMACY CD on Tzadik later this year. This may sound crazy, but this will actually be my first full-length CD in two years. SCEND was my last composition CD, and that music is three years old now. I've been doing a lot of "remixing" lately (Labradford, Oval, Tortoise, etc.), a situation I find interesting as it gives me access to a context where I can walk about with my "anthropological" interests.
DA: Assuming you've thought that far ahead, what are your plans for the near future and beyond?
JIM: Well, I don't have any "careerist" thoughts; if it is necessary for me to wash windows to achieve something, I'll do it. But technically, working now on the new Gastr del sol record, more Tony Conrad work, and writing criticism. Later this year the new Brise Glace record will formulate, and I continue to play in improvised settings, mostly in Switzerland and Germany.