Master Slave Relationship -- essentially the strong-willed arm of Deborah Jaffe in conjunction with video fetishist Rick Daniels -- began approximately a decade ago with a strong interest in documenting, in a musical fashion, themes of power and control. Like the Pain Teens, MSR focuses on obsessive behavior and situations of power and sexuality, with an image that leans heavily toward S&M unlike the Pain Teens, however, the ideas presented through MSR's music are more general and abstract, less specific and more general in their ideas. Sonically, MSR probably has more in common with Coil or Nine Inch Nails; much of its material is groove-oriented, less interested in pure experimentalism. At the core of all this is one interesting woman... read and see for yourself....
DA: When/where/why did Master/Slave Relationship get started?
DJ: MSR started in November 1984, mostly inspired, I think, from my dreadful need to be in control of every aspect of a project. MSR is one person, basically. Me.
DA: What's the goal/intention behind M/SR? Do you just simply like making music and find this a good outlet, or is there a more specific idea in mind?
DJ: I've always been fascinated by the amount of medocrity in popular culture. The lack of personality and individuality is astounding. I wanted to do an ongoing project that explored topics that were otherwise glossed over or ignored. Plus, I had and still have a need to express my sometimes overwhelming emotions and thoughts.
DA: I know you've done at least one video; how important is the video side of things to M/SR? Or live performance, for that matter?
DJ: I absolutely hate live performance. I did a few (but not as MSR) and hated every moment of it. So why do it? I don't. I do, however enjoy perfecting something for a video camera. It is certainly more personal that way -- you can watch it in the privacy of your home when you want to.
DA: Where would you place M/SR musically, for the benefit of those who haven't heard what you're doing? Is there a "genre" you identify with, or tradition you're following in, or do you see yourself as something more separate?
DJ: Industrial??? Who knows.
DA: How do you approach each album -- do you go in with specific things you want to say/get across, or is the process more spontaneous?
DJ: I usually have a general "feel" in mind when I start a new project. And then it takes off from there.
DA: Have you had any success finding a home for your book CHILD LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR?
DJ: I've not tried too hard to place the book with any publishers. I may self- publish under the MSR label. It is rather, um, extreme.
DA: Do you think society is growing more control-oriented? Where do you see the control/manipulation process occurring?
DJ: I think it will be interesting to see where the so called "information highway" will take us. On one hand I'm afraid it will just turn into another version of the television -- more mediocrity, lots more. But the variety of people and influences are vast, so we'll see. I'm heavily into work on my Macintosh computer -- I do graphic design in cyberspace, I guess you could say. I hope the "virtualness" of computer space will allow our imaginations to soar. I'm in the process of starting a new software company called Cybertzara; we're developing an interactive CD-ROM which will be quite weird and wonderfully strange. I've already recorded a majority of the music for it -- the soundscape -- which will be under the MSR label.
DA: Your video THE WILD, WILD WORLD OF M/SR is extremely control-oriented, to put it mildly -- from the use of venitian blinds allowing precise control of light, the use of remote controls for the TV, to the more obvious forms in the "fantasy scene" that occurs at the end. And I love the way you used the remote to turn off the picture at the end, while the music still plays. What was the intent behind the video and what response where you hoping to evoke? Do you think you achieved your intent?
DJ: Ever pessimistic, I sometimes wonder if anyone out there really understands what I'm trying to achieve, including me!
DA: Do you see your music as a method of commenting on society, or your own life/philosophy, or both/other? From what events do you draw inspiration?
DJ: It's highly personal. Maybe too much so. I really never took an interest in popular outside groups or bands or whatever, but I just had to notice the airplay (at least out here in SF) of the new NIN album. It's not a matter of comparison, but Trent Reznor has really gone over the edge when it comes to injecting one's soul into one's music. I had to be reminded of MSR. It's almost embarrassingly personal. I like that. A lot.
DA: Is the bondage aspect that's most immediately obvious in M/SR what you intended to be in the forefront, or do you actually see M/SR as being about more general issues related to control/etc., rather than the one thing that everybody instantly picks up on?
DJ: Bondage, but not in the physical sense of the word.
DA: I was looking through ANGRY WOMEN again recently and the subject of women and guns came up often. What's your opinion on the gun debate? [NOTE: This is a paraphrase of the question I actually asked, because I lost part of my damn notes....]
DJ: I own two guns currently -- a Glock 10mm semiauto, and a Smith & Wesson .44 magnum revolver. I'm NOT a member of the NRA, but maybe I should be???!!? It seems so obvious to me that guns are not the problem, no more than cars are responsible for drunk driving (or liquor itself, for that matter!). People refuse to take responsibility for themselves and their actions; it's always easier to blame someone or something else. I don't think it's a fair assessment to say we live in a violent culture -- people have always been violent down through the ages. The problem is we live in a culture that doesn't value and treasure KNOWLEDGE, education, individuality, and privacy.
DA: What's your reaction to the unpleasant news of radical anti-abortionist Paul Hill opening fire at the Penascola, FL abortion clinic recently, where he killed the doctor, his escort, and wounded the doctor's wife?
DJ: The guy is an irrational crazy person. (How's that for succinct?). He has turned the bible inside out to further his own twisted agenda.
DA: What do you think of the rigid lines of control regarding gender roles in our society? Men aren't supposed to wear dresses, women are supposed to behave a certain way, etc., and a great deal of social force is exterted to maintain the status quo in that sense. Do you think things are changing in that respect or not?
DJ: I think those lines are getting less rigid. But then what I see and hear now that I'm living in SF is different from what I experienced in the Midwest. A few days ago I saw a guy walking down the Haight (where I live) wearing a skirt (but otherwise not in drag, though you see that here too). Anything goes here. Maybe that's why I'm here.
DA: Why do you think sexuality (in any form) is such a controversial subject in this country (or others)?
DJ: The origins of sexual repression goes back to the church. It was a means of control. At this point in time the issue of sexuality has become so mangled it's hard to dissect it anymore. To me, whatever you enjoy is fine, as long as it isn't imposed against someone else's will. In other words: mutual consent. Beyond that, there are no rules. This is a much misunderstood aspect of S&M among people who know nothing or very little about it. To digress a bit here: I actually liked a few of Madonna's images in her book -- the pictures taken at the Vault in NYC especially -- however, it seems like every time she speaks, her intelligence lowers just a little bit more, which is too bad because S&M has gotten such a cartoonish image over the last few years. Shock value is meaningless anymore. I don't think people can be shocked. I can't think of anything that would shock me. Personally, I'd like to see more erotic images of men, I'd like to see men become the sex objects for a change. I'd like to see more men exploring their submissive sides, but in a mature, non-whining way. I've been to the Vault several times and each time slaves would grovel at my feet and whine. That is completely not sexy. It's rather disgusting. My idea of what is sexy is so particular, so picky, so personal, it's hard to pinpoint; I know it when I see it but it's hard to discribe it.